Posts by Anders Andersen

44

What crime should elders report?

by kramer in

jw
friends

so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

assault on a congregant?.

Anders Andersen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_reporting_worldwide?wprov=sfla1

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-fight-law-requiring-child-sex-abuse-be-reported-to-police/

so the elders should report every accusation (not proven claim) of petty theft, or assault?

You're creating a straw man here.

Anyway my personal opinion is that confessional confidentiality in regular churches is hardly justified. I don't realy care about perps of whatever kind who need to confess to stop feeling guilty. They could just go to the police and deal with whatever they did wrong, cleansing their conscience in the process. So clergy should report confessed crimes to the police imho, but it should be mandatory to report child abuse at least.

As for Jehovah's Witnesses: they don't do confessions. They have no confidentiality. So they should at least report child abuse, especially when the law says they should.

Imho elders and clergy have the same rights and responsibilities as any other citizen. Besides, protecting victims and not perpetrators is the right thing to do.

44

What crime should elders report?

by kramer in

jw
friends

so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

assault on a congregant?.

Anders Andersen

It's interesting that for Watchtower confidentiality is a one way street, just like freedom of conscience and religion.

Law: everyone should report (allegations/suspicions of) child abuse to the proper authorities when they have knowledge of such a thing.

Watchtower: That doesn't apply to us. Confessional confidentiality and such. An elder can only share intel with another elders to form an investigation committee. And then 3 other elders for the judicial committee. And a phone call and a letter to the branch with specifics. Oh and possibly the CO and the 3 or 4 elders on the appeal committee. So like we said: strictly confidential. The confession can only be shared with 11 elders. Unless the branch will be involved a bit, then it may be more.

Authorities: uhm.., yeah right. And what about when a victim comes to you for help? No perp confessed, so no confessional confidentiality applies right?

Watchtower: go away, Satan!

------------------------

Some JW: A JW friend of mine told me something in a confidential conversation. He smoked half a cigarette! How important is keeping confidential matters confidential?

Watchtower: Whenever a JW breaks our rules, you must tell us, or you will receive a share in the judgment for his sins. Must tell! Otherwise die!

Watchtower is morally bankrupt and has no rights whatsoever to hide behind any privilege they don't acknowledge for themselves anyway.

38

My son is coming home to me soon. Yey!!!

by KateWild in

my son sent me a wonderful song a month ago on this thread.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5704271907520512/my-wonderful-son.

it's amazing how a bad experience can trigger action.

Anders Andersen

Good for you and your son!

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

Anders Andersen

If that many people swear by their good experiences there, then perhaps there is something to the power and healing effects of these places.

Many people truly believing something isn't necessarily an indication of that something being true, as all.of us here very well know ;-)

On the other hand, many (perceived) phenomena haven't been researched properly yet, and thus no conclusive statements could really be made about them...

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

Anders Andersen

@RedPill,

Another alternative health factoid from our great nation:

National Watchtower leaders and Biohorma (a producer of fytotherapeutic and homeopathic - thus alternative - ...uhm...~~medicine~~ supplements) were historically very much intertwined (although less so now).

47

Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....

by Freeandclear in

jw
friends

so real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.

i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.

i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.

Anders Andersen

@codedlogic:

Excellent post. I already knew some of what you wrote, yet your clear presentation gives it a whole new (and important) meaning.

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

Anders Andersen

RedPill,

(Off topic: I am suddenly throw back to the intriguing life story of Red Adair I've read in Readers Digest some 20+ years ago)

Your account is intriguing indeed. I also wonder how this works. Just because there isn't a scientific researched explanation (yet) doesn't mean it's imagination or supernatural*.

Only a few (non-overlapping) generations ago nobody had any idea about germs and sterility. Yet they put (sterile) honey on wounds because that helped to heal.

Likewise it's very well possible that some people have (unknowingly) tapped into some technique we have yet to discover properly.

Btw glad you're without this pain now.

*) On the other hand the lack of scientific evidence or explanation doesn't mean something does actually work beyond placebo effect. There are a lot of healers and techniques out there that really are bullshit. The fact that the (quack)healers themselves believe in it doesn't make it true (like JW honestly believing they have 'the truth' doesn't make that reality either).

47

Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....

by Freeandclear in

jw
friends

so real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.

i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.

i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.

Anders Andersen

The Bible's own claim that it is God's word is an extraordinary claim. Such a claim should be backed up by extraordinary evidence, but it's not.

Just saying 'look, some of the history in the Bible is correct' and 'some of the writings are scientifically correct'....that's not nearly enough. Everyone and their dog can write books that have that.

Actual prophecies being fulfilled...that would be something. Unfortunately no Bible prophecy can be verified to be fullfilled from other sources than the Bible itself. And everyone and their dog can write a book than claims a future event in chapter 1, and then claim it's actually happened in chapter 10.

So there is no evidence in favor of divine origins. But is there any evidence against it? Yes.

Contradictions.

Despicable Bronze Age morals that improved over time...just like in the rest of society. But condoning rape, slavery and murder is not very godly.

And statements that are completely wrong scientifically speaking. Some examples of what is wrong:

Order of creation is wrong, no matter how you spin it.
Mankind is proven to be much older than roughly 6000 years*.
There is no evidence of a global flood...ever*.

*) only clashes with a literalist interpretation...but one could wonder why a God would write down easy stuff in a confusing way...couldn't he at least say it's just some allegorical story?

So, extraordinary claim (I am a Nigerian prince wanting to make you rich!), no evidence in favor, much evidence against the claim...my conclusion: the bible is just a much divinely inspired as the Quran, the book of Mormon, and the Lord of the Rings series.

58

O.K. Everyone..Here it is!! Grayson v.s. Insight Book!!!

by Lady Liberty in

here are the scanned copies i promised i would post.

thanks to my wonderful husband, he made it all possible, as he is a computer whiz!

these copies show the out and out deception on the part of the organization.